Fraud, error & debt | 4 June 2014 | Meeting note

4th June 14:00 – 16:00


Amanda Hillman, DWP
John McIlwraith, DWP
Jonathan Dennis, DWP (Legal)
Mitch Riviere, HMRC
Paul Wilson, NHS Protect
Sean Rigney, MoJ
Emily Meredith, DVLA
Alison Morris, CLG
David Williamson, London Borough of Tower Hamlets
Tony Qayum, London Borough of Tower Hamlets
Bevis Ingram, Local Government Association
Kevin Campbell-Scott, Southwark London Borough Council
Geoff Eales, Charity Commission
Rupert Cryer, Cabinet Office
Simon Burton, Cabinet Office
Jonathan Wallis, Cabinet Office
Alistair Webb, Chiltern District Council
Dan Nesbitt, Big Brother Watch
Javier Ruiz, Open Rights Group


Item 1 – Review of Last Minutes and Actions

  1. The session opened with a welcome and an overview of the context of the current Open Policy Making (OPM) process for this workstrand.
  1. The minutes from the last meeting (9th May) were agreed.
  1. In light of comments from the plenary meeting around diary management, dates of 26th June and 23rd July were suggested for the next two meetings. The 23rd July meeting could be a full day meeting if there is interest in doing that.
  1. A request was made for venues alternative to Government owned venues as it is felt that using neutral space is more in accordance with the ethos of the Open policy approach.

Item 2 – Paper B: ‘Heads of Agreement’


  1. In groups, Paper B was discussed.
  1. Conclusions were shared. Broadly it was agreed that the Paper accurately reflected the current state of agreement within the group.
  1. Amendments to be made to the document, to be made by PA and circulated, were agreed.

Item 3 – Paper C: ‘Current Government Thinking’


  1. Following on from the actions point agreed at the last meeting, CO shared some excerpts from the original policy paper on inter-government data sharing. It was stressed that the intention was to not colour the open policy process by having the CO paper as something to ‘work to’ but instead the Paper was provided for information and to contribute to the ongoing Open Policy discussion.

Item 4 – Paper D: ‘Base Case For Debt’ 

  1. Rupert Cryer gave a talk setting out the scale of government debt and base case for chasing it. Questions and discussion followed afterwards. Queries were raised around the extent to which this represents an information sharing problem.
  1. It was agreed that obtaining further information on the possible role that greater information sharing could play in recoverability of debt should follow.

Item 5 – Actions/next steps

1 Paper B to be edited as per group discussion and re-circulated for agreement. PA
2 John Wallis (economics, CO) and PA to meet with CO Behavioural Insights team to examine options for stakeholder studies on fraud and information sharing JWPA
3 Any further queries on Paper C should be directed to PA in the first instance. PA
4 Any further queries on Paper D should be directed to PA in the first instance. PA


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Tim Hughes

About Tim Hughes

Tim is Involve's incoming director, taking over from 21st January 2017. Tim has led campaigns and advocacy on open government; advised national, devolved and local governments, civil society organisations and multilateral institutions; and researched and written on topics including public participation, open government, democratic reform, civil society advocacy and public administration.

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